tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4796851174433094373.post7165822483051564239..comments2023-11-02T05:22:46.119-04:00Comments on In With Bacchus: Science of Wood MaturationScott Spolverinohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02109548168910173982noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4796851174433094373.post-34739994359239945202013-11-08T12:37:11.643-05:002013-11-08T12:37:11.643-05:00Thanks for the feedback, Scott, much appreciated. ...Thanks for the feedback, Scott, much appreciated. Perhaps the fatty acids and esters cluster together, but less firmly than the ethanol and are more "easily" encouraged by water additions to pull apart. Certainly it does not take anything like 20% ABV to "loosen" up the aroma; this happens with even a tiny splash of water.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4796851174433094373.post-87065891251756912232013-11-07T13:45:52.662-05:002013-11-07T13:45:52.662-05:00Jay,
Bingo! As said, the closer to 20% ABV it get...Jay,<br /><br />Bingo! As said, the closer to 20% ABV it gets, the weaker the ethanol clusters get. They're not reacting in any way with each other, they're just kinda...huddling together for support. The more water you add, the weaker they huddle together until about 20% ABV in which it becomes a fully homogenous mixture.<br /><br />As for the aromas and flavors, I BELIEVE they cluster as well. fatty acids and esters are polar just like ethanol and will behave as such. When you add water, you break them up too. At least that's what I THINK. I haven't seen any papers on what exactly they do but I'll keep looking.Scott Spolverinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02109548168910173982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4796851174433094373.post-65321481515396180982013-11-07T11:58:55.627-05:002013-11-07T11:58:55.627-05:00Very nicely done, Scott. You mention how the addit...Very nicely done, Scott. You mention how the addition of water makes it "easier" to drink the booze. Could you offer any insight into why the addition of a little water to a glass of whiskey—most especially whiskey that has not been chill-filtered—not only makes it "easier" to drink but *also* releases additional aromas and flavors from the whiskey? Could I guess that the additional water is causing the clustered ethanol molecules to partially break apart and form new bonds? My name is Jay, thanks—Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4796851174433094373.post-54008220733589013812013-04-15T12:28:00.176-04:002013-04-15T12:28:00.176-04:00Interesting, exciting stuff. Thanks for the reply....Interesting, exciting stuff. Thanks for the reply.Hollyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13349756888902196570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4796851174433094373.post-74974951838918080732013-04-14T22:39:43.588-04:002013-04-14T22:39:43.588-04:00I'm not entirely sure but I've got a rough...I'm not entirely sure but I've got a rough idea. Here's what I think:<br /><br />Wood is not necessary...but it speeds things up quite a bit. The addition of the other chemicals from wood will react with the ethanol and water and also catalyze the ethanol-water clustering by providing an even more polar solution.<br /><br />Also, there will be interactions between the ethanol (ethanolysis) of the chemicals that will utilize the ethanol. Oxygen passing the barrel barrier will also catalyze reactions that will increase the likelihood of clustering.<br /><br />Yet again, I'm not entirely sure. The idea of ethanol clustering is still being tested in laboratories and papers are coming out. It's kind of new-ish (the last 10 years is pretty new in the science world).Scott Spolverinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02109548168910173982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4796851174433094373.post-25996876452524837602013-04-14T22:16:33.588-04:002013-04-14T22:16:33.588-04:00Just came across this fun post. I'm curious ab...Just came across this fun post. I'm curious about the clustering of the ethanol molecules. You say that this takes time - is the wood necessary for the clustering process or does it continue to happen even after it's been bottled?Hollyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13349756888902196570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4796851174433094373.post-3710702166452384132013-02-19T23:54:09.422-05:002013-02-19T23:54:09.422-05:00Awesome write-up, Scott! Thank you for the insight...Awesome write-up, Scott! Thank you for the insight!!!Shane H.http://www.howtodrinkwhisky.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4796851174433094373.post-45835013912746650412012-01-28T18:29:20.290-05:002012-01-28T18:29:20.290-05:00Technical post; I'm in admiration of your scho...Technical post; I'm in admiration of your scholarly efforts! Extremely interesting. I agree with first commentor that this could be the start of a great series.Whisky Critichttp://www.whiskycritic.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4796851174433094373.post-36794332924393377932012-01-15T13:46:18.621-05:002012-01-15T13:46:18.621-05:001. Correct.
2. Correct.
3. As these clusters tig...1. Correct.<br /><br />2. Correct.<br /><br />3. As these clusters tighten, it becomes harder and harder to separate them. The intermolecular forces between the hydrophobic ethane group become greater and greater as time goes on. It's like the difference between splitting apart an orange vs. a bowling ball. So it makes it more heterogeneous because if you were to take a liter of this aged spirit and start drawing off picoliter samples (.000000000001 liter), you wouldn't get an even distribution of those ethanol clusters. Why? Because you can't break them apart. If you had a combined amount of 3 ethanol clusters in two samples, it wouldn't be 1.5 clusters per sample, it would be more like 2 clusters in one sample and 1 cluster in another because the chemical bonds in the cluster prevent it from being split between the two samples. This is why it becomes more heterogeneous: the clusters aren't free to cleave and homogeneously distribute.Scott Spolverinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02109548168910173982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4796851174433094373.post-18395895729248895442012-01-13T11:35:20.781-05:002012-01-13T11:35:20.781-05:00Hi Scott,
I am the "Ananymous" above. T...Hi Scott,<br /><br />I am the "Ananymous" above. Thanks for the reply. I am still a little bit confused, so please help correct my understandings: <br /><br />1. Spirits >20% ABV is heterogeneous; <20% ABV is homogeneous.<br /><br />2. Homogeneous spirits tastes smoother than the heterogeneous one because your taste buds are not bombarded by clusters of highly concentrated ethanol.<br /><br />3. When >20% ABV, ethanol form clusters. These clusters became tighter as it ages. Does that make the cluster smaller? Why does "tighter" cluster making the solution even more heterogeneous? Doesn't it make the solution a bit "more" homogeneous (more uniform size clusters?) and thus, taste smoother?<br /><br />Thanks and really appreciate the article!Bennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4796851174433094373.post-40059153725409576542012-01-12T18:12:50.457-05:002012-01-12T18:12:50.457-05:00Fred: Yeah, I'm not the greatest biologist. Bu...Fred: Yeah, I'm not the greatest biologist. But I can design the hell out of a still, so that's all that matters! Fair points, all, though.<br /><br />Anonymous: It is actually heterogeneous. If it was homogeneous, every volume of liquid you poured (down to the smallest of metric units) would have exactly the same amount of ethanol as all the others. When the ethanol clusters, this doesn't happen. Some volumes will have more ethanol, some less. These tighter ethanol groupings have less of an effect on the taste buds (I think) as they are currently interacting with themselves instead of all reacting chemically on the tongue.Scott Spolverinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02109548168910173982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4796851174433094373.post-71666166641156794982012-01-12T13:59:56.968-05:002012-01-12T13:59:56.968-05:00"This is why older spirits can taste "sm..."This is why older spirits can taste "smoother". As time passes, these ethanol clusters become more and more compact, making the solution more and more heterogeneous."<br /><br />Do you meant the solution get more "homogeneous" as time passes (smaller cluster = less chunk of ethanol = smoother taste)? If so, I assume these cluster tend to "un-bunch" with time. Why is that?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4796851174433094373.post-60978894276340034322011-12-22T12:06:11.418-05:002011-12-22T12:06:11.418-05:00A few comments from the biochemist here:
1) cell ...A few comments from the biochemist here:<br /><br />1) cell membranes are made up of more than phospholipids. Often the lipids have a hydrophilic but uncharged end. Some are charged. If all the membrane's lipids were charged, this would cause massive electrostatic issues such as in acquiring food.<br />2) plants have both a cell wall and a cell membrane. So they do have the fatty stuff. Same with yeast which have a cell wall and a cell membrane.frederichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17939679837071519844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4796851174433094373.post-24503474211540877482011-12-15T15:24:46.983-05:002011-12-15T15:24:46.983-05:00I'd honestly say that artificial atmosphere is...I'd honestly say that artificial atmosphere is just an extension of this. Investigations into artificial atmosphere are investigations into the effect of higher or lower temperature/humidity/elevation/what have you on wood maturation. We've covered almost all the science of yeast fermentation and byproducts, malt biology and enzyme interaction, and atmospheric effects of whisk(e)y post-bottling. We've kinda run out of things to investigate but, luckily enough, what we have left can go deeper than the Mariana Trench.Scott Spolverinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02109548168910173982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4796851174433094373.post-68834821147680077212011-12-14T10:17:41.832-05:002011-12-14T10:17:41.832-05:00I wouldn't call this the final frontier. I'...I wouldn't call this the final frontier. I'd call it the next frontier. There's so much more that hasn't been touched, like artificial atmosphere...lawschooldrunkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06981455538460795016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4796851174433094373.post-76599091117082484532011-12-13T18:57:38.441-05:002011-12-13T18:57:38.441-05:00Nice. Thanks for writing this up. Maybe the next i...Nice. Thanks for writing this up. Maybe the next installment could focus on applying this knowledge practically.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com